""" I don't think desperate & fallacious creationist propaganda is what he had in mind. """ Can I ask - have you read this book? I have, and I can tell you that your description of it is so off the mark!!! Anyway evolutionists produce there own propaganda just as much as anyone else. """ I mean, would you read a book called 'Why Creationists Are Dumb Ass Idiots'? """ No I would not - thats why I suggested a book that does not call anyone an idiot! Richard dawkins on one of his "numerous" programmes said that people are stupid if they do not believe in Evolution. He sits there with scant evidence for anything he says - and tells everyone else that if we do not accept his opinions we are all mugs. I say read both sides of the argument - as I have. Perhaps you have to. After everything being considered - I vote for a creator.
The Scotsman
JoinedPosts by The Scotsman
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55
Creator or Evolution? Confused...
by Newborn ini don't feel i have to know the truth about how life started or where we're coming from etc, but can't help thinking abt it anyway now and then.
guess it's only natural.. right now i feel really clueless and that i have too little knowledge abt the darwin, big bang theory.... (i was always taught by the dubs that darwin questioned his own theory...but was it really so?)..
i have a close friend who's sure of the evolution but can really the complex and wonderful life and nature come abt by chance (even though he says it's not chance...).
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The Scotsman
The alternative to Creation is ultimately - Nothing Made Everything - which defies the basic rules of science. The key one being cause and effect - Every effect MUST have a cause. For anyone to come on to this forum and say the evidence for evolution is "overwhelming" is overstating it a tad!!!! Richard Dawkins admitted that - There is plenty of "circumstantial" evidence for Evolution but no absolute evidence. So it enters into the realms of faith - believing something we cannot explain, see or prove totally.
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The Scotsman
There is a book entitled - You can take an Evolutionist to evidence but you can't make him think. Excellent book The Scotsman
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42
Just read the God Delusion- JWs get a mention!!
by Kudra indriving back from dallas to tucson i listened to in on my ipod.
unabridged version.. what surprised me is how sentimental dawkins is.
once or twice he made me tear up.
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The Scotsman
Tuesday
Thanks for your long and somewhat over-reactive comments.
Lets get this whole thread in some context - Richard Dawkins book - The God Delusion....
Does he believe in evolution? YES
Does he believe in God? NO
My entire reason for commenting on this thread was to make the point that His conclusions are merely an opinion - his version of facts. His comments / books are given more credence than they deserve.
Do I disagree with all of evolutions conclusions? NO
Do I believe in a creator? YES
Tuesday - you are totally entitled to your opinions, but to resort to "name-calling" and "character attack" is a poor perfromance on your part and undermines the whole point of this discussion forum.
You have attempted to make me look "uneducated, stupid and argumentative.
You said - "" If you feel comfortable continually arguing against something you clearly don't know anything about go ahead. ""
I think you will find that it was in fact you that turned this into a pointless argument.
You said - "" You're confusing alot of different things here.""
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! All I said was that I thought Dawkins was wrong in his "No God" conclusion - remember the context - The God Delusion book!!!!
You "mockingly" suggest looking up the word Evolution in a dictionary. I think you know what you can do with this suggestion.
The Scotsman - not a happy JWN member...
What happened to freedom of expression???????????????
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42
Just read the God Delusion- JWs get a mention!!
by Kudra indriving back from dallas to tucson i listened to in on my ipod.
unabridged version.. what surprised me is how sentimental dawkins is.
once or twice he made me tear up.
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The Scotsman
Tuesday -
Your missing the point - for gods sake!!!!!!!!!!
First lets stop all of this garbo about there not being any Evolutionists etc etc and whether its a abiogenesis or Evolution!!!! Your merely playing with words.
To suggest that evolution is merely about living things is bull.
It boils down to one question - How did the universe get here? (Not, how did living things get here!)
Evolution is about the "origin" of everything - just as religion is about the origin of everything. - animate or inanimate.
You said - Of course because a pencil is not a living thing. Evolution only applies to living organisms. This isn't even comparing apples to oranges, this is comparing apples to plastic oranges.
Interesting -
The Atom is not living.
Galaxies are not living.
And yet both are governed by physical laws and clearly show design. (Merely my opinion by the way)
Also you qoute others and post links to "pro" evolution videos etc - hey we can all refer to information to back up our claims.
I am not a creationist by the way - and I also do not disagree with everything that Evolution has concluded.
I merely feel that a Creator caused it all to happen. God caused the big bang if you like.
Anyway their is not much point going on with this - I am set in my ways and so are you.
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42
Just read the God Delusion- JWs get a mention!!
by Kudra indriving back from dallas to tucson i listened to in on my ipod.
unabridged version.. what surprised me is how sentimental dawkins is.
once or twice he made me tear up.
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The Scotsman
Tuesday & Missing Link
There I was, at work just minding my own business and I thought to myself - wonder whats happening on JWN this week - I will have a wee look.
Jees - so glad I did!!!! NOT. LOL.................
I rarely post here now but "thought" this was an interesting subject.
Missing Link - you said ""It's only when the FACTS were shown to me that I interpreted them properly""
How do you KNOW they were facts? How do you KNOW that you interpreted them properly?
I go back to my original point - its all about opinions and I am fine with that.
You were not shown FACTS - you were shown information that someone has concluded is fact - in other words - someone elses opinion. Once again - i am fine with that, we are all the same.
Tuesday, you said this - ""Evolution is not based on a presupposition, it's based on observable, verifiable evidence.""
REALLY???????? Most Evolutionists would not even agree with you on this one!!!
Tuesday, you said - ""Evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis, this just shows a lack of education on your part.""
No respect for others, or there opinions - you need to work on that! So what if I dont know everything on the subject - neither do you!
Tuesday, you said - ""Otherwise don't bitch about their methods"
No one is bitching about anything - did you read my comments.
I take it we all still agree that a pencil was made by an intelligent being?
No hard feelings folks - its all about opinions and this subject always gets a bit passionate.
I am now lifting my kilt up at the computer screen in a defiant gesture!!!!!!!!!
The Scotsman
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42
Just read the God Delusion- JWs get a mention!!
by Kudra indriving back from dallas to tucson i listened to in on my ipod.
unabridged version.. what surprised me is how sentimental dawkins is.
once or twice he made me tear up.
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The Scotsman
Missing Link
Why do we interpret facts differently?
Because we start with different presuppositions. These are things that are assumed to be true, without being able to prove them. These then become the basis for other conclusions. All reasoning is based on presuppositions (also called axioms). This becomes especially relevant when dealing with past events.
I am going to hazard a wild guess and say that your presupposition is that you believe in Evolution - no matter what evidence is available, which is fine by me - each to their own and all that.
My presupposition is that we are all the result of being created - based on what I see all around me - everything is "made", life comes from life. These are observable "facts".
I don't believe in creation because its the better option. I believe because, as far as "I" am concerned, its the only logical conclusion.
Imagine 5 pictures were held up - A pencil, a DNA strand, an Atom, a Neuron and a galaxy.
All of us "including Evolutionists" agree that the pencil was "made" by someone, by a human (or group of humans) with intelligence. The pencil did not come about on its own. But, in the same breath evolutionists want us to believe that DNA, the atom, neurons and entire Galaxies are a product of merely the passing of time with no pre-design, no intelligence.
Is this a "reasonable conclusion?
One of Dawkins books is called "The enemies of reason". I am personally convinced that it is these very scientists that are the enemies of "reason"ableness.
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42
Just read the God Delusion- JWs get a mention!!
by Kudra indriving back from dallas to tucson i listened to in on my ipod.
unabridged version.. what surprised me is how sentimental dawkins is.
once or twice he made me tear up.
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The Scotsman
Natural Selection??????????
Chance????????
Dont matter - evolution has more holes in it than swiss cheese!!!!
He is right that the Creation book is far from perfect - but neither are his conclusions.
I had a fair amount of respect for Richard Dawkins until about 6 months ago I seen an interview with him and he said that -
"Anyone who does not believe Evolution is either stupid, lacking basic intelligence or both".
What a tremendous lack of humility on his part.
Creationists and evolutionists, Christians and non-Christians all have the same evidence—the same facts. Think about it: we all have the same earth, the same fossil layers, the same animals and plants, the same stars—the facts are all the same.
The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts.
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Did you know of any elders who only worked by themselves in field service
by truthseeker inthere was one elder i knew, a bully type, who always worked by himself in field service.
i never saw anyone else work with him.. did you know of elders like this?.
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The Scotsman
I knew an elder who did not like working with sisters becuase "in case he was faced with a tempting situation"!!!!!
No joke - he was quite open about it.
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You can effect a Tipping Point.....
by sweet pea inplease prove to me i'm not posting in the graveyard shift....... besty and i were talking about password protected and family's exit this last few weeks.
we are full of admiration for the way that they have left with dignity and obviously made many think.
they have not faded, they had a good repuation until the very last moment - mark was an elder - but they stopped and made the decision to be up front and face the elders in a meeting.
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The Scotsman
First - I have to "totally" agree with slimboyfat on this one.
Sweetpea - you said that PasswordProtected and family left with dignity. Did they??? As I have told PasswordProtected personally; he will have been disgraced, gossiped about and possibly slandered by his exjw friends - no honourable way out of the org exists!
When people DA or DF - what is the price they pay? The loss of family - surely a loss beyond measurement.
We have faded and it has worked out just fine - no hassle from JWs, they no longer have "any" hold on us what so ever and on top of all that we still have contact with ALL of our families. Sure, for some, DA DF may be the only options; but to suggest it as a course of action to be pursued to somehow create a "tipping point" in the org is simply someones dreams!!!
THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
JWs look at people who leave the org as if they are idiots, to be shunned, faithless and dead at Armageddon. Surely we have a greater chance of getting someone out the org if we maintain some level of contact.
As for Mr and Mrs Scotsman - I feel we have got out of the WTBTS with "a little" dignity - but only because we "did not" DA.
If people want to DA, good on them and I wish them all the best. But we have managed to escape by not DAing - and I am proud of that.
We have all got out of the org - lets just get on with our lives.